Curse

BoondockSaint · Jun 26, 2009, 07:56 AM // 07:56

SEE SECOND POST FOR CHANGES BASED OF SUGGESTIONS AND COMMENTS.

So I am waiting at the office for some clients and decided to post my skill suggestions for Ranger elites. I picked the ranger because A. It is my favorite class in both PvP and PvE, and B. I feel the diversity of ranger elites is somewhat limited. I will not be dealing with skills that I feel, or others feel, may need nerfs or the elites that seem to be fairly balanced.

So here we go.

(Some of these suggestions you may have seen on the skill suggestion page in wiki)

[Marksmen’s wager] change to "for 12 sec your bow attacks drain 1-6 energy. If your arrow fails to hit you lose 10 energy.

For pvp,
I think it would be interesting to have an elite version of debilitating shot. It would require skill in that you do not want your arrows to miss so you would have to pick your targets or time the preparation. 6 energy may be too much but I think the time it lasts compared to its recharge should keep it in check.

[practice stance] change to, conditions you apply last 25-35-50% longer and your preparations activate 50% faster and last 100% longer.

For pvp,
I feel this skill is on the edge of being a good skill, it just needs something more. Its current form is a bit redundent so I tried adding some additional benefits.

[Punishing shot] increase recharge to 8 sec, change to, "interrupt target foe, if that foe was casting a spell that foe is knocked down. if punishing shot fails to hit it is disabled for an additional 10 sec.
Edit 1: increased damage does not apply.
edit 2: negitive effect if blocked or missed

pve Version,
Interrupt target foe, if you interrupt a skill, all foes in the area suffer 12-25-47 damage.
Edit 1: removal AOE knockdown. added damage, similar to cry of pain, gives rangers a reason to use a bow.

[Greater Conflagration]
PvE only: increase recharge to 30 sec change to, everytime someone is knocked down they are set on fire for 1-8 sec.
Edit 1: original form was suggested as being to powerful

I’m not sure how to balance ranger spirits in pvp. Thus I only made this suggestion for pve, but maybe with a bit of tweaking, the concept I mentioned above could be used in pvp.

[Melandru's Arrows] increase duration to 24 sec change to “whenever your arrows hit they cause bleeding, if you are enchanted they strike foes +6-21 damage.

This is all I can come up with for this skill so far. Glass arrows is so similar I feel this preparation may need a new function.

[Poison arrow] increase recharge to 6 sec, change to, “If this arrow hits target foe and all foes in the area are poisoned for 5-17 sec.”

For pvp,
This is what has been suggested for a long time, I feel AOE poison would fit perfectly into the ranger’s arsenal.

[Lacerate] change to “for every 4 sec this spirit is alive all creatures with range of this spirit suffer bleeding for 4-27 sec.

PVE version, only affects foes.
Edit 1: alot of people have said that natural rits by their concept, should always affect everyone, here is my response to that,
However, Elite ranger spirits are almost never ran in pve or pvp because of their function. While my suggestion may make then a bit overpowerful what I am aiming at is to bring these elites into play. Thus I am suggesting a slight change to spirits basic concepts. Perhaps have on the elite spirits an effect that affects everyone and a negitive or postive one that affects allies or enemies?

This has been done before and has be suggested for skills like the necro's wells.

[Archer’s signet] increase recharge to 19 sec, add to skill, “every time you inflict a condition you are healed 30-250% of that’s conditions duration and you lose 1 condition. (For pvp the healing % may need to be scaled down.)

For pvp,
This is perhaps my most radical suggestion but one of my favorites.

[Trapper’s focus] add to skill “all traps you set inflict cracked armor as well.”

Not sure this would get this skill much show time, but it might be more tempting to take in HA with the trapper rangers.

[Equinox] Pve only: move to expertise line, reduce life to 10-45 sec, change to “All foes within range of this spirit suffer exhaustion every time they cast a spell, when this spirit dies foes suffer 1-3 damage for each point of exhaustion they have.

Edit 1: need suggestions has been said that this would be to powerful

For pve,
Because foe’s in pve HM have so much energy I added the damage clause which could be very helpful in elite areas.

[Strike as one] add to skill, “the next time you hit you causing crippling and strike for +10-21 damage.

For pvp,
This skill has a cool function but needs some damage added to it so that it can find a place in pvp.

[Expert’s dexterity] With the nerf to [read the winds] I feel this skill could be put back to the way it was but keep the attack speed at 25%.

[Quicksand] add to skill, all foes who are within range of this spirit do not benefit from speed boosts.

Edit 1: yes it is similar to muddy terrain but I suggest we change the function of certain spirits, perhaps just elite ones to to have an effect that is either positive to only allies or negitive to only enemies.

For pvp,
Not sure about this one. Not allowing enemies to use IMS’s might be too powerful.

Well I am running out of time so I did not get to all the skills. Constructive criticism is always welcome. Just don’t be nasty. I did this partly because I was board and partly for fun so don’t ruin that

Though on a serious note I would like to see some of the ranger elites changed to allow a more diverse play for the ranger while at the same time keep them within the scope of their profession. Hope you enjoyed the read!

the Puppeteer · Jun 26, 2009, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoondockSaint

I picked the ranger because A. It is my favorite class in both PvP and PvE...

So that's why the skills you suggested are overpowered

Gift3d · Jun 26, 2009, 08:39 AM // 08:39

I like a few of your suggestions, especially punishing shot. Most PvP ranger builds are way too alike.. elite, attack, 2 interrupts, prep, stance.

As for quicksand though, that could be one of the worst elites as is in GW right now, but your suggestion for it's already done with muddy terrain which is non-elite

Full: Create a level 1...8 spirit. Non-spirit creatures within its range move 10% slower, and speed boosts have no effect. This spirit dies after 30...78 seconds.

Bristlebane · Jun 26, 2009, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Most of your suggestions are extremely overpowered.

Area Knockdowns.. are you shooting trees?

Marksmen’s wager/Dual Shot/Forked Arrow/Needling Shot/Mindwrack would be insanely overpowered.

Greater Conflagration/Lacerate .. just place them near any foes and go AFK as they burn/bleed, forget Perma Shadow, this would be the new farming skills. Especially since foes in PVE tend to roam around naturally.

Nature spirits are not Binding Rituals, they should affect all non-spirit creatures and not just foes. So your spirits would cause just as much burning/bleeding etc to your team. By just standing still you would only have to deal with bleeding which you could counter with any regen skill.

Dre · Jun 26, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristlebane

Nature spirits are not Binding Rituals, they should affect all non-spirit creatures and not just foes. So your spirits would cause just as much burning/bleeding etc to your team. By just standing still you would only have to deal with bleeding which you could counter with any regen skill.

This

Only binding rituals (rit spirits) can "choose" whether they affect allies or foes
Nature rituasl (I.E. ranger spirits) always affect everyone within it's range

PS: nearly all you skills are OP

MagmaRed · Jun 26, 2009, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I think I remember reading in the forum rules that you were only allowed to make 1 suggestion per topic. So you need to make 1 topic for each skill you want changed. Most of what you suggested is not only overpowered, but goes against the game mechanics. Knockdowns are EXTREMELY powerful, and giving a ranged knockdown is a bad idea. If you want to knocksomeone down from range, use a spell of a shout.

Artisan Archer · Jun 26, 2009, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

I think I remember reading in the forum rules that you were only allowed to make 1 suggestion per topic. So you need to make 1 topic for each skill you want changed.

Hahaha, that would've been funny if you weren't serious.

btw; punishing shot would be epic spike skill.

Eragon Zarroc · Jun 26, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

couple of these are decent. punishing shot KD would be flipping awesome. quicksand negating all speed boosts doesn't sound too bad (muddy terrain =P). however, conflag causing constant burning to moving foes? lacerate causing bleeding every 4 secs? 2 rangers with these spirits able to keep constant max degen on enemies would be so fvcked up. hell, u could prolly just place the spirits in range of enemies without aggroing and kill them. so yeah, might need to rethink a couple.

BoondockSaint · Jun 26, 2009, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Geez, my apoligizes, I had no idea you had to make a thread for each idea you have.

About natural rit. your right, with the exception of whatever that vanguard spirt in, they geneally do affect all players. This is generally why you do not see these elites in pvp or pve except for gimic farming builds. The reason I suggested that at least one of the effects does or does not effect the casters team was so you did not have to base or consider your whole team around that one spirt, similar to that vanguard spirt, but yes I know that is only in pve.

As for the skills being over powered, if it is the recharge and such that does not matter, that can be worked with, it is mostly the mechanic that I am suggesting.

The spirits in pve, I would assume that when the monsters begin to be affected by them they would attack your party or charge after the spirits. If not then you are right this would be op. But because of what was said here, here is what could be done

Lacerate be the same in pvp and pve, increase the recharge and decress the duration,

Greater conflageration set foes, (or even all) on fire when they are knocked down.

punishing shot, just to clarify what some one had said, the AOE knock down is for pve only. As for pvp I think this could fit into the game especially if you have a longer recharge and add a negitive effect it punishing shot is blocked or misses. Also for clarification the damage that it currently does would be removed.

marksmens wadger, perhaps have the prep end after you use a certain number of attack skills. Remember if 1 or 2 attack skills are blocked you out or energy.

Thanks for the comments, btw what did you think or archers sig?

Bristlebane · Jun 26, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoondockSaint

About natural rit. your right, with the exception of whatever that vanguard spirt in

That should have been a Binding Ritual from the very start, it's an anomaly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoondockSaint

The spirits in pve, I would assume that when the monsters begin to be affected by them they would attack your party or charge after the spirits.

Would still be used by farmers, all you have to do is find a good ledge where mobs can't reach you, place spirits and just wait for them to burn up doing nothing at all.

And ranged AE knockdowns is not going to happen.

HawkofStorms · Jun 26, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Nature Rituals should affect everybody on the field, not just foes.
Suggesting that changes a very fundamental concept of the skill type. It's like making a suggestion for stances to stack, you just don't do it.

Pip Squeak · Jun 26, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

[Punishing shot] increase recharge to 8 sec, change to, interrupt target foe, if that foe was casting a spell that foe is knocked down.
pve Version,
Interrupt target foe, if you interrupt a skill that foe and all foes in the area are knocked down.

I do agree that this skill could use an upgrade, however, I fail to see how an arrow can cause knockdown, or even AoE knockdown. May want to be more realistic....

Quote:

[Equinox] Pve only: move to expertise line, reduce life to 10-45 sec, change to “All foes within range of this spirit suffer exhaustion every time they cast a spell, when this spirit dies foes suffer 1-3 damage for each point of exhaustion they have.

Like everyone else said, it affects everyone. This could ruin the spellcasters in the party, especially monks, unless everyone has Glyph of Energy on them.

Quote:

[Melandru's Arrows] increase duration to 24 sec change to “whenever your arrows hit they cause bleeding, if you are enchanted they strike foes +6-21 damage.

This is all I can come up with for this skill so far. Glass arrows is so similar I feel this preparation may need a new function.

Yup, it needs a completely new function. Only difference is shorter duration, inflicts bleeding even if not blocked, and only does damage when foe is enchanted.

Also, Greater Conflagration is used to do 3-man SoO and other farming builds, so it's not useless enough to be changed.

Shriketalon · Jun 26, 2009, 08:52 PM // 20:52

There's an interesting note of inspiration along one of the lines, the Conflagration and Greater Conflagration. In particular, the bit of trivia that Conflagration was conceived in the beta, a skill called Summer. And of the interesting dichotomy between two other skills, Predatory Season and Fertile Season, which correspond very nicely to the autumn harvest and spring growth.

So, here's a little redesign to consider, taking a few of the useless ones (Lacerate = -2 degen, Equinox only effects a few elementalist skills).

Predatory Season becomes Autumn, mechanically unchanged. Infuriating Heat becomes Autumn Equinox, and changes to "Every time a creature attacks, it gains adrenaline and 1 energy."

The two skills work together extremely well for a physical party, providing energy, health, and adrenaline gain across the board. The energy boost is added to allow the former Infuriating Heat to actually help the ranger who casts it, as well as dervishes and assassins within the party.

Conflagration takes back its original name, Summer, and uses the mechanics of its older brother, converting all physical damage to fire. Greater Conflagration becomes Summer Solstice, and changes to "All fire damage causes burning for n-n seconds."

Once again, synergy. The party can prepare to mitigate burning, but it is still a double-edged sword. As a side effect, can significantly help elementalists within the party.

Winter stays Winter. Of course. Equinox becomes Winter Solstice, and changes to "All cold damage causes weakness for n-n seconds."

For the mirror of summer, winter would greatly hinder physical opponents, allowing weakness to be spread as well as a lot of synergy with several caster skills that trigger off the condition.

Fertile Season becomes Spring. Mechanically, as usual, unchanged. Lacerate* becomes Spring Equinox, and changes to "All non-spirit creatures in the area gain X health per second," X being a small number kind of like Rejuvination.

Takes pressure off of monks, but requires very good targeting and spiking in order to actually slay creatures. Would also be very useful for areas with major degeneration or party-wide damage.

Variable options: that health per second might present an obvious problem, either too weak to prevent any significant damage, or cause too much bother slaying monsters constantly regenerating. Other possibilities might include:

1) health regen, more easily mitigated.
2) gain health whenever they use a skill that targets an ally
3) all attributes are increased by 1-2. Fits the way Fertile Season buffs all creatures, makes everyone more potent.

Hopefully, that should make these elites actually useful for their areas. Buff the physical heavy team with the fall harvest, spread burning across the land through summer heat, sap the enemy's strength with bitter cold, or survive the onslaught with spring renewal.

*the only reason Lacerate would become Spring Equinox rather than the more obvious Equinox is simple: Wardens. Running around the echovald forest spamming Winter Solstice would look mighty strange. Instead, they would get the spring version, thematically appropriate, although probably annoying for slaying them.

Show Some Skin · Jun 26, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Your Suggestions are overpowered, plus some skills you posted are already skills. Your Quicksand=Muddy Terrain

AmbientMelody · Jun 26, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

There's an interesting note of inspiration along one of the lines, the Conflagration and Greater Conflagration. In particular, the bit of trivia that Conflagration was conceived in the beta, a skill called Summer. And of the interesting dichotomy between two other skills, Predatory Season and Fertile Season, which correspond very nicely to the autumn harvest and spring growth.

So, here's a little redesign to consider, taking a few of the useless ones (Lacerate = -2 degen, Equinox only effects a few elementalist skills).

Predatory Season becomes Autumn, mechanically unchanged. Infuriating Heat becomes Autumn Equinox, and changes to "Every time a creature attacks, it gains adrenaline and 1 energy."

The two skills work together extremely well for a physical party, providing energy, health, and adrenaline gain across the board. The energy boost is added to allow the former Infuriating Heat to actually help the ranger who casts it, as well as dervishes and assassins within the party.

Conflagration takes back its original name, Summer, and uses the mechanics of its older brother, converting all physical damage to fire. Greater Conflagration becomes Summer Solstice, and changes to "All fire damage causes burning for n-n seconds."

Once again, synergy. The party can prepare to mitigate burning, but it is still a double-edged sword. As a side effect, can significantly help elementalists within the party.

Winter stays Winter. Of course. Equinox becomes Winter Solstice, and changes to "All cold damage causes weakness for n-n seconds."

For the mirror of summer, winter would greatly hinder physical opponents, allowing weakness to be spread as well as a lot of synergy with several caster skills that trigger off the condition.

Fertile Season becomes Spring. Mechanically, as usual, unchanged. Lacerate* becomes Spring Equinox, and changes to "All non-spirit creatures in the area gain X health per second," X being a small number kind of like Rejuvination.

Takes pressure off of monks, but requires very good targeting and spiking in order to actually slay creatures. Would also be very useful for areas with major degeneration or party-wide damage.

Variable options: that health per second might present an obvious problem, either too weak to prevent any significant damage, or cause too much bother slaying monsters constantly regenerating. Other possibilities might include:

1) health regen, more easily mitigated.
2) gain health whenever they use a skill that targets an ally
3) all attributes are increased by 1-2. Fits the way Fertile Season buffs all creatures, makes everyone more potent.

Hopefully, that should make these elites actually useful for their areas. Buff the physical heavy team with the fall harvest, spread burning across the land through summer heat, sap the enemy's strength with bitter cold, or survive the onslaught with spring renewal.

*the only reason Lacerate would become Spring Equinox rather than the more obvious Equinox is simple: Wardens. Running around the echovald forest spamming Winter Solstice would look mighty strange. Instead, they would get the spring version, thematically appropriate, although probably annoying for slaying them.

These are very interesting suggestions of you, I like them. Perhaps it could bring Rangers into more spirit-like gameplay after entire era of those damned spikes.

MisterB · Jun 26, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

So you want to change Punishing Shot(Elite) to Rocket Propelled Grenade(Elite) in PvE?
Please keep in mind that monsters in PvE get the PvE skills, too. Punishing Shot is used by several foes, like Destroyers. In hard mode, they would be upgraded to a ranged, area effect knock down attack skill that recharges in 4 seconds. Wouldn't Glint's Challenge and Destruction's Depths be so much FUN if that happened?

/notsigned

BoondockSaint · Jun 27, 2009, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Would still be used by farmers, all you have to do is find a good ledge where mobs can't reach you, place spirits and just wait for them to burn up doing nothing at all.

And ranged AE knockdowns is not going to happen.

I changed it in my second post. I will update my first one though. Also Lacerate in its current form already causes degen, though very slowly.

There are several skills that currently cause range AOE knockdown though they do have a difficult requirement or cost a bunch of energy to cast.

None Shall Pass
earthquake
meteor
PvE: great dwarf weapon.

I guess what could be done for pve then is something like this "if punishing shot inturpts a skill that foe is knocked down and all foes in the area suffer 12-24-40 damage. Better?

At Shriketalon: Cool post!

Quote:

Nature Rituals should affect everybody on the field, not just foes.
Suggesting that changes a very fundamental concept of the skill type. It's like making a suggestion for stances to stack, you just don't do it.

I understand that, and you are right in the instance of stances that is a game element that should not be changed. However, Elite ranger spirits are almost never ran in pve or pvp because of their function. While my suggestion may make then a bit overpowerful what I am aiming at is to bring these elites into play. Thus I am suggesting a slight change to spirits basic concepts. Perhaps have on the elite spirits an effect that affects everyone and a negitive or postive one that affects allies or enemies?

This has been done before and has be suggested for skills like the necro's wells.

Quote:

So you want to change Punishing Shot(Elite) to Rocket Propelled Grenade(Elite) in PvE?
Please keep in mind that monsters in PvE get the PvE skills, too. Punishing Shot is used by several foes, like Destroyers. In hard mode, they would be upgraded to a ranged, area effect knock down attack skill that recharges in 4 seconds. Wouldn't Glint's Challenge and Destruction's Depths be so much FUN if that happened

After seeing what others had said I did change punishing shot a bit.
as for the monsters, that does not bother me one bit, any thing that makes pve a bit more difficult is ok in my book.

I do not want to come off like I am some elite player but anything that give sabway/discordway a run for its money is great. Though I doubt this will be a change that would cause it.

What I will do is update the original post based off what people had suggested here.

HawkofStorms · Jun 27, 2009, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoondockSaint

I understand that, and you are right in the instance of stances that is a game element that should not be changed. However, Elite ranger spirits are almost never ran in pve or pvp because of their function. While my suggestion may make then a bit overpowerful what I am aiming at is to bring these elites into play. Thus I am suggesting a slight change to spirits basic concepts. Perhaps have on the elite spirits an effect that affects everyone and a negitive or postive one that affects allies or enemies?

So, IWAY, barrage pet, Urgoz, etc just don't count as spirits being used?

BoondockSaint · Jun 27, 2009, 06:06 PM // 18:06

maybe I did not explain myself well enough in my last post. The change would not be for ALL natural rituals. Non-elites should always effect both parties. I am saying make an exception for the elite spirits. Allow a negitive or positive effect to only affect enemies/allies FOR THESE SPIRITS ONLY.

I also did not say spirits were not. I said, by allowing the above change, the elite spirits may get some show time. Also see the revised notes, with the exception of quicksand I tried to add more balanced effects based of the suggestions here.